78s

[ruairi]

Hello all. Brand new poster and brand new fan - I'd never even heard of Duke Special until I took my best mate to see The Divine Comedy at The Roundhouse as his early Xmas present.

Frankly, I had never been so blown away by a support act. I bought the current album on-line as soon as I got home and it's even better! Stunningly good stuff. It's so different from the other music I'm into (I'm a huge fan of Sigur R?s).

Sorry for starting a thread on this but I can't see that it's been dealt with before. Something close to my heart... I am actually a trader in old 78 rpm discs and have seen that some of Duke's releases have the A side running at 78.

Is anyone on this forum actually able to play the A sides of the 10" discs (though I know that technically you don't need to) and likewise, does anyone know if, as the A-sides are 78rpm, are they also designed to be played with a 78 stylus? I have a professional modern 78rpm deck but would hate to destroy a disc by using the wrong needle.

Anyone know why Duke has this thing about old gramophones?

[helen]

Hello actorguide and welcome to the forum!

I'm able to play the 78s - I've got a very old Dansette record player that still works perfectly (well, almost - sometimes I have to give the arm a little nudge to encourage it across to the record!). The vinyl records sound great on it and so atmospheric. It plays 78s, 45s and 33s and I use the same needle for all of them and the needle hasn't been changed for yonks...

I must admit though that I only dug the record player out of the store cupboard for the sole purpose of playing Duke Special on it. :)

[jan]

In my distant youth all I had was a record player which had 2 options of stylus, one for 33 & 45 records and one for 78s. You just had to rotate the end of the playing arm but like as not I would forget.
If the arm wouldn't move across the record the trick was to perch a ha'penny on top of the playing head and the extra weight would hold the needle in the groove! Suppose the equivalent today would be a 2p piece - about the same size.

[silvertiger]

I've been able to play them on my old old Ferrenti and it's grand although the volume's banjaxed so it's a case of listening in very quiet places. Would be interested to know how Duke's stuff sounds on modern 78" players as I asked Santa for a new deck for Christmas! Can you recomend a good make? My eye is on one of the Project debut models.

[ruairi]

Thanks for the answers, folks.

I'm going to sound really geeky and bland here... talk about bad first impressions...

PROJECT are meant to be very good. I have a REGA PLANAR 78 which is also a studio standard deck. I think they cost about ?300 new. A lot lies in the standard of the cartridge as well; they cost about ?100 a time for mine. Most importantly of all is having a good graphic equaliser. This makes the biggest difference to sound quality. You should have at least 10 faders for each channel but the first and last couple you can usually set to virtually zero - though maybe not for Duke's stuff, having modern recording methods.

I really should be talking about Duke and asking questions. Like how many of you, like me, think he's the spitting image of a young Robert Smith - and how many times people have said that in the past!

[silvertiger]

Sorry but I'm going to ask all my questions now about record players cause I don't know very much about them and it seems to be hard to get information in Belfast (I'm probably not asking in the right places as I tend to get blank looks, laughed at or asked 'would you not like a nice shiny ipod?'!!!)
So.....
Is it better to have a standalone player with internal amp or one to play through a separate hifi system?
If the later how do you know if you need an extra attachment (pre-amp) when the manufacturers of your system don't know aand tell you different things depending on who you ask! (it's Sony).
It seems you can get a groovy device which will allow you to play 78s on a regular two speed deck - anyone tried this or does it seem like a lot of footering about just to hear something that's recorded on normal speed on t'other side?!
Thanks for the tip about project but are there any other affordable three speed players out there, I don't think Santa will be prepared to spend megabucks on a record player (in my house Santa is a bit more with the times than me! lol)

That seems like more than enough for now. I'll thank anyone now who bothers to read to the end!!! Especially if you can offer advice! :)

[ruairi]

Well, I never thought being a newbie I would be able to answer any questions for anyone myself!

My simple advice to you is this : if it is just for the fun of playing Duke's singles at 78 then go onto eBay and buy yourself a 1960s Dansette or something for about a tenner. The tinny mono quality of such things is quite fun and nostalgic.

Going silly over 78 players is really only for you if you have a big collection - I've had thousands pass through my hands and you would be an obsessive fan indeed if you were to shell out megabucks just to hear something you can, as you say, hear on the other side exactly the same at normal speed.

However, if you are talking serious equipment I would not suggest one with a built in amp as a rule. These tend to be cheap decks - usually. I have a SONY turntable for normal vinyl and both that and my costly REGA both need to be linked into a pre-amp before going into my proper amp. Even then the output is only average. I usually have to have the input level up to nearly full when making a copy onto CD or Minidisc via the system. Likewise, if you are keen on going kosher then don't go for a 3-speed deck. These are fine if you just want it for the novelty, but it's not high quality. This suggestion of some device to make 78s playable on a 2 speed deck sounds bizarre and risky in the extreme. I'd advise you to forget that one!

[dukester]

hello, i am very interested in buying some 78s and indeed if there are people out there in the great city of Belfast who are intererested in this format we should talk! x

[silvertiger]

Thanks for your advice. Could have sworn I'd posted a reply the other day but my rum befuddled mind can't be trusted to do such things properly!!!

This suggestion of some device to make 78s playable on a 2 speed deck sounds bizarre and risky in the extreme. I'd advise you to forget that one!


Apparently it's some sort of belt(?!) which you put round the platter/platen itself, it most slow it down. I don't know what that's about!

I have to admit my record collection is in its infancy comprising of Duke Special and inherited 1950/60s singles and the odd album from my parents. I know that Hector's House near the Northern Whig is closing/has closed but I don't know of many other places to buy records in Belfast other than the somewhat limited in Virgin and HMV. So I'd love to know where I could get my hands on some stuff. I'm such a luddite in so many ways and would much rather buy in shops than online!

[ruairi]

Can't help you there, what with being in the South of England and all...

I have PM'd the Dukester regarding his post above, though.

[Loubelou]

Is anyone on this forum actually able to play the A sides of the 10" discs (though I know that technically you don't need to) and likewise, does anyone know if, as the A-sides are 78rpm, are they also designed to be played with a 78 stylus? I have a professional modern 78rpm deck but would hate to destroy a disc by using the wrong needle.


Has this been resolved yet? I have access to a very old hand-wound HMV but I have a feeling that it will destroy the record with its steel needles.

[ruairi]

I have an answer for you, folks.

ON NO ACCOUNT PLAY THE 10" 78S WITH AN OLD GRAMOPHONE NEEDLE.

It will destroy the disc on the first play.

The old style of horn gramophone that Duke uses is only suitable for early shellac discs up to the early 1950s. A very different material which is far tougher and contains abrasvies to keep the needle sharp. Old gramophones will cut through your vinyl discs like a knife through butter.

The only way to play the 10" 78s is on a record deck designed for playing 33s, 45s and 78s - the sort of multi-deck from the 1960s and 1970s like a Dansette. These are the only players with a head light enough to be safe on your discs. That or a professional deck, but you'd have to be mad to shell out several hundred pounds to play them!

Hope this helps.

[nalA]

I have an answer for you, folks.

ON NO ACCOUNT PLAY THE 10" 78S WITH AN OLD GRAMOPHONE NEEDLE.

It will destroy the disc on the first play.

The old style of horn gramophone that Duke uses is only suitable for early shellac discs up to the early 1950s. A very different material which is far tougher and contains abrasvies to keep the needle sharp. Old gramophones will cut through your vinyl discs like a knife through butter.

The only way to play the 10" 78s is on a record deck designed for playing 33s, 45s and 78s - the sort of multi-deck from the 1960s and 1970s like a Dansette. These are the only players with a head light enough to be safe on your discs. That or a professional deck, but you'd have to be mad to shell out several hundred pounds to play them!

Hope this helps.

Gah! I wish i'd read that before I put my freewheel on my handwound HMV player. I only got it from izumi last week too and indeed the needle did slip on the first play and destroyed the disc. :'(

Guess i'm lucky my LNIND and Portrait 78s weren't destroyed too then!

Yes, this boy is stupid.

[drummerbecca]

Gah! I wish i'd read that before I put my freewheel on my handwound HMV player. I only got it from izumi last week too and indeed the needle did slip on the first play and destroyed the disc. :'(

Guess i'm lucky my LNIND and Portrait 78s weren't destroyed too then!

Yes, this boy is stupid.

I'd be gutted too. I have a record player suited to playing 78's and the like but I'm still terrified to play them incase something terrible happens to one of them! I really want to listen to them though, there is something about vinyl that CD's just can't beat. Hmm, dilemma. Do I play them or do I not? :confused:

[very_special]

A standard record player which can play at 78rpm won't do them any harm, just don't attempt to play them on an old style gramophone or phonograph should you happen to encounter either.

i.e Needle bad, stylus good ;)