Lotus blue

[Geordie]

I know from reading/watching interviews that you like your audience to take away their own images and ideas from your songs, but the Lotus blue hanging in the hall line in Freewheel has always left me wondering.....

.....any chance of an explanation?

No probs if it has to remain enigmatic :)

Cheers

Andy

[Fizzy]

That's a line that's always puzzled me too:)

[Guildford Ghost]

I did a thread about this a year ago and there were about 457 answers. The one that made most sense in the end was someone pointing out that Lotus Blue was a fragrance of some sort. Speak to us of lyrical mysticism, oh bedreadlocked troubador!

[thesneakybandit]

I'm a bit of a lyrics geek and feel obliged to research most lyrics I like. God knows how I managed this pre-Google but needless to say there was a rather battered encyclopaedia of everything in the world ever in our house...

Anyway when I first heard this lyric I did a spot of Googling and discovered that the Blue Lotus was one of the early adventures of Tintin stories. I always read Tintin when I was a kid, you know when it was acceptable to do so before he was branded a racist Nazi tyrant etc. However I'm not sure what that would have to do with hanging it on your wall or wearing out your shoes.

Is it a pun Duke? Is it actually "Otis Blue" by Otis Redding that's hanging on your wall?

[Guildford Ghost]

Hi Sneaky.

I was a massive Tintin fan in my early 20s. Unfortunately, Hergé was branded a racist because of the modes of the time and the fact he continued to work under the Nazis in occupied Belgium. The first book, TINTIN IN THE LAND OF THE SOVIETS, was certainly what we'd call racist today but wasn't at all suspect at the time. The second, TINTIN IN THE CONGO, was atrocious at any level. But it was the stupidity of the time and not inherant bigotry in the eponymous hero. The Nazi connections came when Georges Remi (AKA Hergé) continued to work under the Nazis. He was basically forced to keep working if he wanted to stay free. Although questioned after the war for potential collaberation because he DID work during it (he never did anything in the least pro-Nazi), I believe he was still dragged in by the Nazis for annoying them.

All this said, I am fairly positive Duke's lyric has nothing to do with our quiffed reporter.

[thesneakybandit]

Ahh I knew all that I was just too lazy to type it all out ;)

[Stephen]

I always took it to be a painting or some other art form.

[teddy10]

That was my theory on the thread about it............
Would really love Duke to answer this one ~ but if I were him I'd be really wicked and keep people in suspense ;);)

[thesneakybandit]

Again I ask how or why a painting would cause worn out shoes!?

[/devil's advocate]

;)

[Stephen]

Is it a pun Duke? Is it actually "Otis Blue" by Otis Redding that's hanging on your wall?

Or a naked Otis Redding perhaps? :D

[Guildford Ghost]

A picture of a naked Otis Redding (a blue one, as in erotica) would have caused worn out shoes through all the running away from it. Answered. Case closed.

[jan]

A picture of a naked Otis Redding (a blue one, as in erotica) would have caused worn out shoes through all the running away from it. Answered. Case closed.

Oooh I don't know though.........I always thought he was kinda gorgeous.
If you google Otis Redding images, the first one to come up is an album cover and guess what is the predominant colour? Yes......blue! Perhaps that line of inquiry isn't too far off the mark....and you would wear out your shoes dancing to his music, possibly.
xx

[atkygal]

What about foot painting or walking past the same old painting of lotis folders in hall indicates how ofetn he has walked through to life inside - wearing out his shoes. Ok really I don't know - love making my son look like tintin though, always good for a giggle

[claree]

I always took it to be a painting or some other art form.

i always thought it was a painting of some sort too...

[Guildford Ghost]

What about foot painting or walking past the same old painting of lotis folders in hall indicates how ofetn he has walked through to life inside - wearing out his shoes. Ok really I don't know - love making my son look like tintin though, always good for a giggle

In my 20s I was on the books of the Tintin Shop in London in case they were going to do promo work because apparently my resemblance at that time to a character Hergé himself called 'featureless' was uncanny. You have to be linked to me on Facebook, though, to see a photo in the gear from a few years later (taken for a friend who'd asked).

Now it's just partial bunnyisation.

[dukester]

No one close. Egypt would be warmer ;)

[Stephen]

No one close. Egypt would be warmer ;)
I'm glad I created this forum... :p

[runnerbean]

The Egyptians saw that the blue water lily opened up each morning, seeing the intense golden center set against the blue petals, seemingly an imitation of the sky that would greet the sun, releasing sweet perfume. Each afternoon, they would close again only to open again each day. The flower was therefor firmly linked with the rising and the setting of the sun, and thus to the sun god and the story of creation. The religious significance of the flower was great - many columns of the Egyptian temples had water lily capitals crowning them.

I am he who rises and lights up wall after wall, each thing in succession. There will not be a day that lacks its owed illumination. Pass on, O creatures, pass on, O world! Listen! I have ordered you to! I am the cosmic water lily that rose shining from Nun's black primordial waters, and my mother is Nut, the night sky. O you who made me, I have arrived, I am the great ruler of Yesterday, the power of command is in my hand.
-- Spell 42, The Book of the Dead

[runnerbean]

Or if you eat the flowers and drink the wine made from them are the effects euphoric and tranquil?

I think we are all going insane??

Please put us out of misery.

[Guildford Ghost]

The Egyptians saw that the blue water lily opened up each morning, seeing the intense golden center set against the blue petals, seemingly an imitation of the sky that would greet the sun, releasing sweet perfume. Each afternoon, they would close again only to open again each day. The flower was therefor firmly linked with the rising and the setting of the sun, and thus to the sun god and the story of creation. The religious significance of the flower was great - many columns of the Egyptian temples had water lily capitals crowning them.

I am he who rises and lights up wall after wall, each thing in succession. There will not be a day that lacks its owed illumination. Pass on, O creatures, pass on, O world! Listen! I have ordered you to! I am the cosmic water lily that rose shining from Nun's black primordial waters, and my mother is Nut, the night sky. O you who made me, I have arrived, I am the great ruler of Yesterday, the power of command is in my hand.
-- Spell 42, The Book of the Dead

Nah. It's about Otis Redding's nob.

[alice]

Oh dear GG, poor man.

[Guildford Ghost]

Oh dear GG, poor man.

I know - to think; you die in a tragic accident in the 1960s and then nearly 40 years later some golden-voiced singer from Belfast writes a song about your porno willy and people discuss it. It's shocking. I'm shocked. You might be able to feel some of the shock if you put your hand close to your screen.

NOT THAT CLOSE!

[thesneakybandit]

No one close. Egypt would be warmer ;)

Of course it would... It's closer to the Equator!
:whistle:

[dukester]

Runner bean is closest but the flower had other significance and thanks GG I now have a horrible image of aspects of Otis Redding I had never really considered before!

[speshjess]

Is it a reference to meditating/ - blue feet or something? Blue - also as in eye colour and blue connotations as in sentimental.
May be way off the mark with the meditating melarkey...
Speshjess.

[Goldilocks]

http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/lotus2.jpg

The ancient egyptians indeed revered the flower Lotus Blue, but as well as it having the significance of fertility and being used as a kind of narcotic, it was also used to signify the freeing of one's soul (a kind of rebirth if you like) after death.

"The Egyptians looked forward to their souls (http://www.touregypt.net/magazine/mag05012001/magf3.htm) coming to life "like a water lily reopening", thinking that the deceased died as the water lily closed awaiting opening with the morning sun." Tutankhamen had blue lotus in his coffin.

My theory then is: that Lotus Blue is used as a duality.

On the one hand it ties in with the feeling of euphoria (induced by Lotus Blue, and used by the Egyptians,) that 'freewheeling' suggests; but it also refers to hope (rebirth) 'Save my feet from dancing with anyone at all/ Worn out shoes 'cause lotus blue keeps hanging in the hall/Your a face in the distance I hope to recognise/It's like running through deep water trying to look into your eyes. The hope of something better...the soul opening experience, just out of reach, but tantalisingly there all the same, that we all yearn for!

Duke, any nearer?

Also the video has lots of Lotus blue flowers falling around Duke as he sings. (No Tintins or Otis Reddings you notice!) :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL87IpL3LII

[morwenna]

Also the video has lots of Lotus blue flowers falling around Duke as he sings. (No Tintins or Otis Reddings you notice!) :p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oL87IpL3LII

How come I've never seen that video before? :confused: I really love the whole spinning around feel to it.

So, following on from Goldilocks, I'd previously imagined a flower if I'd thought about the lyrics, but hadn't linked the worn out shoes bit. But, the line 'Save my feet from dancing with anyone at all' maybe implies that that has been done in the past, the worn out shoes are as a result from the euphoria, and also hope and rebirth that the lotus blue brings when dancing with someone, but this has been a continual dance with different people, hence the worn out shoes. But actually the person doesn't just want to dance with anyone, they want to dance with the face in the distance. (This may all not relate to a person at all, but to an experience or dream.)

So now, I've made it almost sound depressing - you don't want what you've had, and you're trying to get somewhere that you can't get to. Hmmn! For me though, it's a really positive song - I've only got this morning to live, look at all the colours at my fingertips - I see that as there's so much I could be doing at this time, and I'm just going to fit as much in as possible (which is kind of what I do, it really frustrates me when people say they're bored, as I never have enough time to do everything I want to do - how can you be bored, when there's so much to do?!!). I don't see it as everything's going to end after this morning, but maybe that is the real meaning.

Anyway Duke, please, please tell! Even if it is negative though, the song to me will always be positive :)

[Guildford Ghost]

I now have a horrible image of aspects of Otis Redding I had never really considered before!

Mwa-ha-haa! Almost as disconcerting as seeing me gurning up at you at southern UK concerts, your eminance!

[jan]

Would a closer look at the imagery in that video get us any closer, your Dukeness?
I see links to 'Salvation Tambourine' with the clowns and the birds flying west.
xx

[speshjess]

Lotus Blue - can represent victory of spirit over senses (wisdom) and there is an earlier reference to giving the spirit wings in the song. It could also be part of a picture that was hanging on the wall which is common - eg Buddha sitting or holding a lotus flower.

But hey ho- maybe not for us to know and that would be more than fine. This song is personal for so many. It is beautiful. I get from it positivity for the human spirit. As the song soars.

Speshjess

[teddy10]

Nah. It's about Otis Redding's nob.
Thanks, GG ~ nearly spat a mouthful of vodka and tonic over my laptop as I burst out laughing!
Don't know what have been worse ~ the damage to my computer or the waste of premium quality vodka ;)

[old git]

Whatever the lyrics mean is almost insignificant. It's obviously done the job, it's got everyone pondering and debating....Brilliant

[Wraithlike]

I know from reading/watching interviews that you like your audience to take away their own images and ideas from your songs, but the Lotus blue hanging in the hall line in Freewheel has always left me wondering.....

.....any chance of an explanation?

No probs if it has to remain enigmatic :)

Cheers

Andy
Sorry for being irrelevant, but I'd just like to express my love of your avatar.

[jan]

Whatever the lyrics mean is almost insignificant. It's obviously done the job, it's got everyone pondering and debating....Brilliant

The wisdom of the old....or almost-approaching-late-middle-age.....is, of course, beyond reproach:)
Shame to kill off this thread so quickly though!
It's the first one to get people really thinking and, of course, involving his High Dukeness, giving us tantalising little clues.......
Pondering and debating is good!
Long may it continue until minds sharper and more agile than mine (due to advanced-late-middle-age) finally uproot the truth.
(Damn these horticultural inferences)
xx

[speshjess]

Hi- OK. Look it. This is my last stab at it. I promise!(!) I like a challenge and it's cool to open up amazing lyrics like these if possible. "Save my feet from dancing with just anyone at allWorn out shoes 'cause lotus blue keeps hanging in the hall"- Lotus Blue could be hanging in the hall - like instead of a clock.In this case each new morning is heralded in by the Lotus flower -opening to greet the sun/ new day and closing at the end of the day. Not actually but metaphorically here. (This could be via in a painting such as Buddha sitting holding a lotus flower as previously mentioned.) What better symbol could there be of an open and shut heart also?The hall is a place you arrive into and leave through. His worn out shoes could be because it's like groundhog day - the constant exhausting quest to find "the one".The face he's searching for. It's a long search -the worn out shoes - and he is as if hypnotised and doesn't want to batter his shoes dancing "with just anyone at all." "But it's like running through deep water trying to look into your eyes"-Lotus flowers live in deep muddy waters too. hey- this could be totally incorrect but it was good fun trying to work it out...Speshjess

[Goldilocks]

Why do I picture Duke sititng there sniggering (kindly of course), at all our offers of explanation? Interpretation is a strange (and as we've seen) varied thing!;)

I am convinced that 'Lotus Blue hanging in the hall' is metaphorical, there is no actual Lotus Blue anything 'hanging' in the hall. It means a sense of/feeling of hope/spiritual freedom filling the hall. Shoes and feet are metaphors too. The song for me is about as far removed from the literal as you can get, as its title suggests.

Probably made you laugh again Duke! :wave:

[thesneakybandit]

Obviously it's all purely metaphorical... Everyone round Belfast knows he keeps his blue Lotus parked out in the driveway!!

http://www.channel4.com/4car/media/L/lotus/elise/03-large/06-elise-f3q-s.jpg

;)

[Stephen]

Ah come on now sneaky - you could at least have covered his licence plates first!

[runnerbean]

[QUOTE=Goldilocks;49960]Why do I picture Duke sititng there sniggering (kindly of course), at all our offers of explanation? Interpretation is a strange (and as we've seen) varied thing!;)

I am convinced that 'Lotus Blue hanging in the hall' is metaphorical, there is no actual Lotus Blue anything 'hanging' in the hall. It means a sense of/feeling of hope/spiritual freedom filling the hall. Shoes and feet are metaphors too. The song for me is about as far removed from the literal as you can get, as its title suggests.

Could it have been his wallpaper? Sublime to ridiculous!!!

[runnerbean]

It really gets to you after a while!

Scholars considered the lotus and concluded that as the Easter lily symbolized the Resurrection, and Poinsettia the Nativity, and a variety of plants represented sacred persons, qualities, or events, the blue lotus merely symbolized well-being and long life to the ancient Egyptians, possibly even the act of creation itself. And that was all there was to it.

[treed]

:confused:

I know I might be way off here but the only place I've come across 'Blue Lotus' is in a herbal mixture one can smoke and which gives a bit of a stoned or high feeling. Just like that other illegal stuff!

Hence smoke 'hanging in the hall' Dancehall maybe? Being worn out from dancing with anyone or everyone, rather than the someone you're really looking for. ( Metaphorically speaking)

[Playful]

I’d agree with this theory too.

http://www.marijuanaalternatives.com/blue-lotus.htm

[jan]

As I understand it, Duke is and always has been, anti-drugs and I'm in accord with that.
At Hort. college there was this guy whose only target, when we visited a botanic garden, was to see a blue lotus flower (it grows in water like a water lily). His only aim in life was to get high and he was often high driving to college in the morning....gawd help us!
He quit after a term.

Sooooo....perhaps this part of the song is only based on Duke's personal experiences once removed. He used to campaign against drugs at one time as I'm led to believe.
The blue lotus is known to be a constituent part of hallucinogenic drugs.
Maybe the song is saying that Duke wants no part of this type of experience, does not want to get into the state of being out of control, dancing and wearing out his shoes due to a drug-induced state.
After all, if you're in the grip of some mind-altering drug you can hardly say you are freewheeling because you're in its control aren't you?
The beauty of a new morning is a most personal experience and one I would recommend!
A new dawn has enough beauty to make anyone believe they can accomplish anything, and the colours of a new day wash away all memories of sadness and heartbreak.
Freewheeling is getting on with life, being creative, weathering the storms.
Standing still would be stuck in a drug-induced state, trying to recapture the same euphoria with every hit......can't think of anything more soul-destroying.

Any closer, Your Specialness?
xx

[Guildford Ghost]

As I understand it, Duke is and always has been, anti-drugs and I'm in accord with that.

And me! Respect for the great man goes up yet another notch. I remember after the Shepherd's Bush gig in 2007 an audience member outside was offering a toke to Chip and Chip quite firmly responded "No - we don't do any of that".

[jan]

And me! Respect for the great man goes up yet another notch. I remember after the Shepherd's Bush gig in 2007 an audience member outside was offering a toke to Chip and Chip quite firmly responded "No - we don't do any of that".

It's good to get that clear as I'm not sure if everyone was aware....ie. there was an undercurrent of acceptance that musicians + drugs = normal whereas, in Duke's case, drugs = anathema.
xx

[Geordie]

Coo. Didn't know if this thread would run much after GG had already explored the topic elsewhere but thanks all for your comments thus far, especially his Dukeness of course :)

Quite staggering that just a handful of words can provoke such speculation and debate but imho testament to the quality of the lyrical content of the work :)

[Geordie]

Sorry for being irrelevant, but I'd just like to express my love of your avatar.

Cheers :)

Wish I could claim it as my own but I shamelessly swiped it from another TDC boarder!

:)

[thesneakybandit]

Flowers, sports cars, Tin Tin, Eastern mysticism, drugs, and Otis Redding's bits... This thread really has it all! And also a great and timely use of the word anathema. Everyday's a school-day on here.

[speshjess]

I know!! I had to look up anathema in the dictionary. Now I know a new word!! now I know a new word!!

[treed]

[QUOTE=jan;50010]As I understand it, Duke is and always has been, anti-drugs and I'm in accord with that.

Well, I have to say me too!

But I think it makes sense in the song, metaphorically speaking anyway. Not that it has to makes sense, but I understand it to mean wanting to be concsious and able to connect as the next line expresses how this feels, " like running through deep water trying to look into your eyes"?

Anyway thats the sense it makes to me.

[Goldilocks]

Flowers, sports cars, Tin Tin, Eastern mysticism, drugs, and Otis Redding's bits... This thread really has it all! And also a great and timely use of the word anathema. Everyday's a school-day on here.

I quite agree with the sentiment...but aww :mad:...did you have to use the 'sch' word in the middle of half term?

Today is most definately NOT NOT NOT a school day (or tomorrow for that matter!) ;)

[robi]

'Sch word' - what can you be talking about?

[thesneakybandit]

*Wracks my brain back through the distant sands of time trying in vain to remember what half-term is*

[Guildford Ghost]

It's an 'erm' that's been halved, Sneaky. Quite literally, a halved erm.

[Goldilocks]

I Like this! :p

[banjaxed555]

I just took the line to mean some sort of spiritual dance in honour of the lotus flower. Can't stop dancing in its presence which would explain the 'worn out shoes'.
or maybe i'm insane......

[mixster_2k]

Does anybody else have any good ideas on this one? It’s been really interesting reading all the theories so far.

[jan]

Hello old thread! I think we all addled our brains over the lyric at the time but it would be very interesting to see if anyone comes up with a new theory.
xx

[jodieaitken]

Sorry to wake up a sleeping thread, but I've been thinking this over a lot. I could be incredibly far from the truth, but never mind :)

to me, the whole song has a sort of feeling of an out of body experience, or a hallucination of some sort from, as runnerbean previously said, eating the flowers and drinking the wine made from them, which would produce a euphoric and tranquil effect. I had to google some of these words...
It could be that, if you look to the first verse. "Save me from the movies/and someone elses dreams/while angels make their music/and give my spirit wings." To me, that seems like some sort of description of a hallucination/out of body experience. "Lotus blue keeps hanging in the hall" could be a lasting effect in the corridors of a mind.

Perhaps the "worn out shoes" could be from a wandering mind...? Nobody said it was real shoes.

The rest of it, I don't think I understand. Well, "running through deep water/trying to look into your eyes." have you ran through deep water before? It's fuckin' hard. Doesn't stop you from trying. I don't know...

Wait, ever get that feeling you're making sense in your own head, but not to anyone else? Yeah. I've got that.

Anyway, I'm probably farther from the truth than ever, but there's my theory :)

[Stephen]

Anyway, I'm probably farther from the truth than ever

You just might be ;)

[johntheguv]

Did Lotus not make shoes ? Maybe Lotus Blue were the name of blue suede Brothel Creepers

[Guildford Ghost]

So the line is about smelly shoes?

[johntheguv]

Old blue suede brothel creepers - twood be the socks that are smelly surely ?

[jan]

http://www.barratts.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product1_10055_-1_138824_10553
Surely not with SOCKS!
xx

[rajkid]

But why would your shoes be hanging in the hallway?

[jan]

There's a pair hanging round in ours waiting for their owner to take them upstairs....
:(

[Dawn]

I last read this thread when it first began and I can't believe it's still going :) I asked Duke this question back when I first interviewed him... the answer never made it to the finished article though :p

[robi]

I last read this thread when it first began and I can't believe it's still going :) I asked Duke this question back when I first interviewed him... the answer never made it to the finished article though :p

The question is - do you know the answer?!

[Dawn]

The question is - do you know the answer?!

I might ;)

[rajkid]

go on?

[jodieaitken]

Yes, please do tell, Dawn :)

[jan]

You'll tell me though.....you will yes, you will....aw go on, go on, go on, go on........
xx
:D

[Guildford Ghost]

I think I hit the nail on the head when I said a long time ago it had something to do with Otis Redding sitting on the toilet.

[runnerbean]

I think I hit the nail on the head when I said a long time ago it had something to do with Otis Redding sitting on the toilet.

Ahem! Surely it was the dock of the bay he sat on! :)

[Dawn]

I think I hit the nail on the head when I said a long time ago it had something to do with Otis Redding sitting on the toilet.

Spot on GG ;)

[johntheguv]

"Nah. It's about Otis Redding's nob".

... or Knob even ... if he were to Google back then !!! - whilst Runnerbeans's theory is eloquent and most thought provoking ... I ashamedly was drawn to the asian flower ... but in a totally Frankie Howard kinda way ... as in "oo er missus" ... like when you wander into a Chinese takeaway full as a po and despite yourself you ask the young wan for a 69 ... with flied lice ...